Life altering
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Vishaing
"One cannot live without the past, for as you walk, each step you take, no matter how far away it might have been, will wear the sole of your shoe just ever so slightly, but it is enough to ensure that your next step is never the same." Paraphrased and expanded slightly from the story of the Fool, aka the story of the Tarot.
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Meagan
Hey.
I'm doing a little better today. I even RPed a little bit to try and get my mind off things. Today just happens to be a good day, because I went to school and all of my friends were there to support me and help me. I talked to Emora yesterday, and she helped me a lot, too. Thank you, Emora.
I don't think this will last much longer, though. I thank those of you who have been praying for me and care about me. I'm going to try and settle things as soon as I can.
I'm doing a little better today. I even RPed a little bit to try and get my mind off things. Today just happens to be a good day, because I went to school and all of my friends were there to support me and help me. I talked to Emora yesterday, and she helped me a lot, too. Thank you, Emora.
I don't think this will last much longer, though. I thank those of you who have been praying for me and care about me. I'm going to try and settle things as soon as I can.
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Airen
You’ll know when you die? When? Where? How?
If it is possible for you to choose when you die then I guess it is possible for anyone, right? I mean, I have control over my life. People I know have control over their life.
So I guess people just choose that they want to die in a car wrecks. Or choose that they want someone to blow themselves up right next to them. Or choose if they don’t want to live right after being born? Yea, I guess they pretty much chose when they wanted to die. Maybe you’ll have that same lucky choice.
Martial arts and a shotgun? Yes, I can see how that would save you from a wall of water crashing down on your home or landslide right on top of you. You can kick the mud away. I’m sure the water will die down in fear of the wrath of your foot.
Yea, I guess it’s pretty easy to decide when, where and how you die with all these circumstances. The car will pause long enough I’m sure for you to decide whether you want to die or not. I’m sure the guy with the bomb strapped to his waist will tell you his intentions long enough for you to run away, unless you feel like having metal and fire damage you body and rip you to pieces. Go a head and test it to be sure. Because, after all, you do have control over your life and you do know when, where, and how you will die. So, therefor none of these things can hurt you unless you really want to die at that moment.
If it is possible for you to choose when you die then I guess it is possible for anyone, right? I mean, I have control over my life. People I know have control over their life.
So I guess people just choose that they want to die in a car wrecks. Or choose that they want someone to blow themselves up right next to them. Or choose if they don’t want to live right after being born? Yea, I guess they pretty much chose when they wanted to die. Maybe you’ll have that same lucky choice.
Martial arts and a shotgun? Yes, I can see how that would save you from a wall of water crashing down on your home or landslide right on top of you. You can kick the mud away. I’m sure the water will die down in fear of the wrath of your foot.
Yea, I guess it’s pretty easy to decide when, where and how you die with all these circumstances. The car will pause long enough I’m sure for you to decide whether you want to die or not. I’m sure the guy with the bomb strapped to his waist will tell you his intentions long enough for you to run away, unless you feel like having metal and fire damage you body and rip you to pieces. Go a head and test it to be sure. Because, after all, you do have control over your life and you do know when, where, and how you will die. So, therefor none of these things can hurt you unless you really want to die at that moment.
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Meagan
Ah, the sarcasm. I love it. You have a point there, Airen. Shannon didn't choose when she wanted to die. If she had her way, she would still be alive right now. God is really the one that's in control of our lives, but it's our choice to decide HOW we live it. Not how long we live and things like that.
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Vishaing
Is it just me, or are you trying to insult me because I have a different philosophical outlook on life than you do? I might be wrong, but that’s what it seems like to me, and I would like to politely ask you once to not try to insult me simply because you disagree with me. I have not made a single comment about your life, and have not tried even once to insult you and all I ask is the same common courtesy. Thank you.
Now about your points.
First, it takes two people to make an accident, if either is paying enough attention and is competent enough behind the wheel the accident won’t happen, or at the very least, if there is nothing that they can do about it, for instance if there are somehow cars on every side of their car preventing them from moving, the same is likely of the other person in which case the accident will likely not be so severe. Also, I don’t drive, so in effect I have chosen to not be killed in a car accident. To the possibility of being run over by a car, I already have once, I dodged out of the way. When I started dodging I was in the direct center line of the car.
I seriously doubt I will ever be near a person with a bomb. Why would I be? I am not a high ranking government official, and I am in no way a target of terrorists, therefore why would someone be near me with a bomb? Plus I generally detest other people and distance myself from them whenever possible and it’s always possible.
Landslides and Mudslides require sloped terrain, otherwise they’re just a flood. I live in a very flat area, and although it is a coastal area, the coast is far enough away I doubt I have to worry about a flood. People who live on the sides of mountains to the point that half of their house is supported by wooden beams, do chose to put their life at risk, just as the people of San Francisco choose to put their life at risk since they live on a fault line. I have chosen not to live such, so I have effectively chosen not to die in any of those cases.
The Martial arts and the shotgun are for defending against humans and animals, nothing more.
As for infants who die momentarily out of the womb or still in the womb as the case may be, please notice that I never actually talked about anyone else. I feel I am in control of my life, others might not be able to say the same. In fact most others can’t say the same. I have already survived this event, and have reached the point that I have control over my life.
Every free radical is a possibility of death, it is also a possibility of life. If the person sitting next to you on the bus does in fact turn out to be a psychotic madman with a bomb it was effectively your choice to die when you stepped onto the bus and sat next to this person. You might not have realized it, but it was, and by the time you do it might be too late. That must be frustrating, but in the end it was your choice. Every choice you make can have drastic repercussions, SEE –Chaos Theory, you just need to know how to predict the results. I do know how, or at least I have so far.
P.S. "Nothing is impossible to he that will try." Alexander the Great.
Now about your points.
First, it takes two people to make an accident, if either is paying enough attention and is competent enough behind the wheel the accident won’t happen, or at the very least, if there is nothing that they can do about it, for instance if there are somehow cars on every side of their car preventing them from moving, the same is likely of the other person in which case the accident will likely not be so severe. Also, I don’t drive, so in effect I have chosen to not be killed in a car accident. To the possibility of being run over by a car, I already have once, I dodged out of the way. When I started dodging I was in the direct center line of the car.
I seriously doubt I will ever be near a person with a bomb. Why would I be? I am not a high ranking government official, and I am in no way a target of terrorists, therefore why would someone be near me with a bomb? Plus I generally detest other people and distance myself from them whenever possible and it’s always possible.
Landslides and Mudslides require sloped terrain, otherwise they’re just a flood. I live in a very flat area, and although it is a coastal area, the coast is far enough away I doubt I have to worry about a flood. People who live on the sides of mountains to the point that half of their house is supported by wooden beams, do chose to put their life at risk, just as the people of San Francisco choose to put their life at risk since they live on a fault line. I have chosen not to live such, so I have effectively chosen not to die in any of those cases.
The Martial arts and the shotgun are for defending against humans and animals, nothing more.
As for infants who die momentarily out of the womb or still in the womb as the case may be, please notice that I never actually talked about anyone else. I feel I am in control of my life, others might not be able to say the same. In fact most others can’t say the same. I have already survived this event, and have reached the point that I have control over my life.
Every free radical is a possibility of death, it is also a possibility of life. If the person sitting next to you on the bus does in fact turn out to be a psychotic madman with a bomb it was effectively your choice to die when you stepped onto the bus and sat next to this person. You might not have realized it, but it was, and by the time you do it might be too late. That must be frustrating, but in the end it was your choice. Every choice you make can have drastic repercussions, SEE –Chaos Theory, you just need to know how to predict the results. I do know how, or at least I have so far.
P.S. "Nothing is impossible to he that will try." Alexander the Great.
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Soran Nightblade
- Avatar of Hope
- Posts: 10545
- Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 4:45 pm
- Location: NJ
Vishaing, I don't think the sarcasm directed at you was motivated by a desire to insult. The source of the conflict seems to be a contradiction between your definition of "choice" and the commonly accepted one. If someone chooses to enter a poetry contest and their entry does not win, this does not mean that the entrant 'chose' to lose. Similarly, being injured in an accident with a drunk driver does not entail, to most people, that the victim intended that outcome simply because they voluntarily entered a car. This is to say nothing of non-catastrophic sources of danger that can not be voluntarily managed, such as cancer (not to say that we can't alter our risk level with certain lifestyle choices).
If you feel people are coming down too hard on your ideas, it may be because your aggressive debating style is coming across as callous in this thread that was (by my impression) intended as a way to unload some very difficult emotional burdens and support one another in a time when many people are hurting. Whether you feel it contrary to the spirit of debate or not, it shouldn't be a surprise that essentially reducing these difficult problems to "we all ask for whatever we get" generates a defensive response from people.
If you feel people are coming down too hard on your ideas, it may be because your aggressive debating style is coming across as callous in this thread that was (by my impression) intended as a way to unload some very difficult emotional burdens and support one another in a time when many people are hurting. Whether you feel it contrary to the spirit of debate or not, it shouldn't be a surprise that essentially reducing these difficult problems to "we all ask for whatever we get" generates a defensive response from people.
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Meagan
Well, I do agree with what Soran and Airen said, and I disagree with what Vishaing says. I have the right to my opinion, and there it is. So, if anyone doesn't like it, too bad.
Also, what happened to me last week... I'm still not saying what it is, but I will say that it's over. (For now, at least) I've taken care of it in the best way I could, without violence. I would like to thank everyone who has prayed for me. You helped me in more ways that you know, and I'm thankful for all of you.
Also, what happened to me last week... I'm still not saying what it is, but I will say that it's over. (For now, at least) I've taken care of it in the best way I could, without violence. I would like to thank everyone who has prayed for me. You helped me in more ways that you know, and I'm thankful for all of you.
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Praxis the Sorrow
Honestly, Airen and Vishaing, you two are getting yourselves into a heated argument over semantics. Where you draw the line between choosing and not choosing has no observational consequence. Whether or not someone chooses to get into a car accident does not change one bit the facts of the matter. Choose or not choose they still wind up dead.
I'm assuming both of you beleive in some form of causality. Then for every cause of a outcome you cite (belonging to the chooser in question or not) there must be something which caused that as well. And for that cause there must be a prior cause. And so we go on and on in a chain of causes until either we go on forever or we reach an event which has no prior cause. The former is rather unpalatable to the rational mind and for the latter we are only curently aware of two possibilities, God and randomness.
Therefore, if we were to continue your pattern of tracing causes back to a chooser or not chooser we arrive at 4 possbilities.
1. We can go on forever tracing causes back
2. We can blame it on God
3. We can blame it on a bad roll of the dice
4. We can arbritarily stop our hopping from cause to cause in a manner that matches our own personal beleifs independent of any law of logic or nature.
Since a beleif in 4 is independent of logic or nature, a person who holds this beleif cannot be persuaded to change through logic or nature. In short, its an argument of the semantics of the word choice (aka where the definition of choice dicates we stop.)
In line with previous conversations of this forum, what logic and nature do say is that probabilistically we have a spectrum of possible ways to go depending upon our actions (no conotation as to whether we choose them or not.) If we do lots of risky (and exciting things) were more likely to die sooner and in a more spectacular fashion. If we're cautious we're more likely to die later. So what nature and logic do say is that we as mortals face a compromise between our desire for excitement and our desire for longetivity. Unfortunetly, logic and nature do not say what the appropriate way to live is. That again is a question of values and semantics.
I do have a beleif on the meaning of life but I'll save that one for later and only by request....
I'm assuming both of you beleive in some form of causality. Then for every cause of a outcome you cite (belonging to the chooser in question or not) there must be something which caused that as well. And for that cause there must be a prior cause. And so we go on and on in a chain of causes until either we go on forever or we reach an event which has no prior cause. The former is rather unpalatable to the rational mind and for the latter we are only curently aware of two possibilities, God and randomness.
Therefore, if we were to continue your pattern of tracing causes back to a chooser or not chooser we arrive at 4 possbilities.
1. We can go on forever tracing causes back
2. We can blame it on God
3. We can blame it on a bad roll of the dice
4. We can arbritarily stop our hopping from cause to cause in a manner that matches our own personal beleifs independent of any law of logic or nature.
Since a beleif in 4 is independent of logic or nature, a person who holds this beleif cannot be persuaded to change through logic or nature. In short, its an argument of the semantics of the word choice (aka where the definition of choice dicates we stop.)
In line with previous conversations of this forum, what logic and nature do say is that probabilistically we have a spectrum of possible ways to go depending upon our actions (no conotation as to whether we choose them or not.) If we do lots of risky (and exciting things) were more likely to die sooner and in a more spectacular fashion. If we're cautious we're more likely to die later. So what nature and logic do say is that we as mortals face a compromise between our desire for excitement and our desire for longetivity. Unfortunetly, logic and nature do not say what the appropriate way to live is. That again is a question of values and semantics.
I do have a beleif on the meaning of life but I'll save that one for later and only by request....
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Praxis the Sorrow
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Airen
First thing, Vishaing, I wasn't intentionally insulting you and I apologize if I did. That was just my way of trying to explain how my outlook on the matter was. I should have explained the matter more like Soran did, and maybe it wouldn't have come out as an insult. Again I apologize for the misunderstanding.
I just lost a friend and I don't believe that she chose to go the way she did. I believe that everything happens for a reason even if we can't see what that reason is. Yea she made the choice to get in the car and drive but she didn't choose to die. There is a risk in nearly everything we do, and no one knows the future. My grandmother is a bad diabetic and she doesn't choose that by any means. She has had several strokes and we have nearly lost her a couple of times. I don't believe that she had any choice in this matter.
Partially agreeing with what you say, I think that some situations can be avoided but all can't. As far as someone being caught on a bus with a psychopath with a bomb strapped to him. The person who got on the bus had no idea what the crazy man had planned. Yes, they chose to get on the bus but they did not choose whether they wanted to live or die. That choice was made by the crazy man with the bomb.
As in any debate, people are going to voice there opinions and it may offend some people but most of the time it is not intentional. I may disagree with you about your way of looking at everything but it is nothing personal when I state my opinions. I'll try not to be too direct to a certain person in anymore debates unless I'm directly offended.
I just lost a friend and I don't believe that she chose to go the way she did. I believe that everything happens for a reason even if we can't see what that reason is. Yea she made the choice to get in the car and drive but she didn't choose to die. There is a risk in nearly everything we do, and no one knows the future. My grandmother is a bad diabetic and she doesn't choose that by any means. She has had several strokes and we have nearly lost her a couple of times. I don't believe that she had any choice in this matter.
Partially agreeing with what you say, I think that some situations can be avoided but all can't. As far as someone being caught on a bus with a psychopath with a bomb strapped to him. The person who got on the bus had no idea what the crazy man had planned. Yes, they chose to get on the bus but they did not choose whether they wanted to live or die. That choice was made by the crazy man with the bomb.
As in any debate, people are going to voice there opinions and it may offend some people but most of the time it is not intentional. I may disagree with you about your way of looking at everything but it is nothing personal when I state my opinions. I'll try not to be too direct to a certain person in anymore debates unless I'm directly offended.
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Airen
The only thing that I don't understand is the fact of when Vishaing said that he knows exactly when he knows he's going to die. I don't understand how anyone can know when they're going to die. Death is inevitable and the time of which they choose to die cannot be decided. You say that you have avoided death on several accounts and managed to dodge death. There are many situations that you won't have "the ultimate choice" in. You may make the smaller choices that lead up to the event but in the end you have no say in it.
This is not an insult to you Vishaing, it is just a question which I still ponder. It may sound like it is directed to you but that is because it is kind of a question that I'm asking you and no one else. I ask that you please don't take this as an insult.
This is not an insult to you Vishaing, it is just a question which I still ponder. It may sound like it is directed to you but that is because it is kind of a question that I'm asking you and no one else. I ask that you please don't take this as an insult.
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Meagan
Don't worry, Praxis, I won't throw a tomato at you. I'd rather eat them. ^^ I might throw a shoe at you, but not because of your opinion. XD
I agree with what Airen said. Now, there are some cases where your death IS your fault. Now, let's say in got in the car while under the influence of alcohol, and you wrecked and died. Well, that still doesn't mean you chose to die, but it was still your fault. You should have had more responsibilty.
But the main point is: accidents can still happen. Anything can happen, and you have to accept that you could die today or tomorrow or 10 years from now. You never know. That's why you have to live life while you can, because you never know if there's going to be a tomorrow.
I agree with what Airen said. Now, there are some cases where your death IS your fault. Now, let's say in got in the car while under the influence of alcohol, and you wrecked and died. Well, that still doesn't mean you chose to die, but it was still your fault. You should have had more responsibilty.
But the main point is: accidents can still happen. Anything can happen, and you have to accept that you could die today or tomorrow or 10 years from now. You never know. That's why you have to live life while you can, because you never know if there's going to be a tomorrow.